Tim Lee, lead singer/guitarist for the Tim Lee 3, is an institution. Whether or not he likes being deemed that, we're not really sure. Hell, the man's played on around fifty+ albums. If that's not something, we truly don't know what is. Along with his wife, Susan Bauer Lee, on bass and vocals, and Rodney Cash on drums, Tim has culled together a trifecta of noisy clatter, and powerful rock 'n roll. Recently we sat down with Tim and Susan to get their thoughts on making music, and their adopted town of Knoxville.

Paperthin: What is the new album title?

Tim: Not sure yet, really. We've just started kind of planning it. Like the last night we were in Tucson, Susan and I sat down tried to figure out a sequence and all that. We kind of need to get on it pretty quickly, because we need to get it out in the spring. We plan to get it out in the spring. It's all recorded and mixed, we just have to do all of the other stuff.

Susan: Artwork, mastering.

T: Sequencing, all that fun stuff.

PT: You got the hard stuff done. So you don't know a release date. Probably Spring?

T: Probably in March or April at the latest

PT: Can you give me a brief history of your time and experience making tunes?

T: I grew up this kid in the Seventies, that loved rock 'n roll music, played guitar, just couldn't wait until I grew up, and was in a band. Then finally started playing in bands. When the Eighties scene, the whole independent thing, hit I was primed for it. I'd been really kind of affected by the whole punk rock thing of the Seventies. When the Eighties happened, and the independent music scene came together, I was right there ready to go. I had a band called the Windbreakers. We just kind of got in early on. In the early Eighties there were only so many bands going out, doing this stuff. A handful of independent labels, and all this. So we got a lot of critical acclaim, went out and did a lot of playing, touring, and stuff. If we'd have come along now we probably wouldn't have got to do half that stuff. it's so much different now. We came along at a good time. Through that, I met a lot of cool people, got to work with a lot of cool people, and got to do a lot of cool things. Kind of by the end of that decade I had sort of gotten tired of beating my head against the wall. We sort of were the definitive 'hard luck' band. Out of a lot of the bands I knew that had bad luck, we had the worst. Some of it was self-inflicted. I wasn't any good at making business decisions concerning art. If we had a choice of labels to put out a record, I'd go with the people I liked best more than the people that could do the best job maybe. But I'd still probably do it that way. So I dropped out for a while. Then, around the time we moved here [Knoxville], I started getting back into it again. About that time Susan decided that she wanted to play bass, she's naturally gifted that way. Within six months she was on stage playing. Couple years later she was co-writing songs and singing.

PT: In a lot of the articles you're constantly referred to as 'Tim Lee of the Windbreakers.' Does that bother you?

T: No, because that was definitely where I got any sort of notoriety that I might have. The Windbreakers were this, it really was just me and this other guy making records more than anything. We did get a good amount of attention. I mean, it was a good time for us. It really was. We made some cool records and stuff. We had a knack, being these guys from Mississippi, to be able to fall into any scene. We were perfectly comfortable hanging out with the West coast, sorta psychedelic bands, and then the East coast, somewhat weird pop bands, then around the other southern bands. We hung out with all those people, and played with them. No, it doesn't bother me at all. Its better than being called 'nobody.'

S: Or 'that guy.'

T: Tim Lee, 'that guy.' At least there's a point of reference, I guess.

PT: What do you think of the Knoxville music scene, and its tremendous growth over the past few years.

T: Its kind of amazing. One of those things that a lot people sit around and complain about, the Knoxville music scene. To me it's insane to do so because where I'm from, Jackson, Mississippi, which is a similar sized town, maybe even a little bigger, doesn't have anywhere near the number of creative songwriters, players, and bands. Certainly not as many venues. I mean, with our band, there's several places we can play. Nobody tells us 'hey you can play, but want you to do a bunch of covers.' They just say 'we want you to come play.' There are tons of really good bands, really creative people, really smart people. I think if people did less complaining about it, and did more participating in it, it would grow even that much more. There are plenty of people that do participate, are part of things. Nothing happens unless people make it happen. I think the only thing that's lacking is more participation. That may always be the case. I think it's great right now. Few weeks go by, if we're around, that we don't see two or three bands. Usually it's local bands. We see more local bands than we do visiting bands from out of town. Just because there are a lot of people we really like, and a lot of people who's music we really like. I look at a band like the Tenderhooks, and there are very few bands in the world right now that I'd rather see than the Tenderhooks. I don't look at them like 'oh, they're these local people that we know and we like.' I look at them as one of my favorite bands, period. I'm not from here, so I guess I have a little more detachment than most people. it's easy for me to say 'yeah, I like the Westside Daredevils,' not just because we share a rehearsal space with them. it's because I really like them. I like their music. If I didn't know them, I'd still like their music. It's like that with a lot of stuff here. It's really hard to explain because most think of locals bands as something lesser than what's out there in the world, and I don't see the Westside Daredevils as anything different than The Flaming Lips. I just happen to know them [WD]. Big damn deal, you know. I happen to know the vast majority of my favorite bands, but that's because I've gone to a lot of places, done a lot of things. That doesn't all of the sudden mean I like the dB's less because they're my friends, or I like Mitch Easter less because he's my friend. No, they are still some of my favorite people, as well as my favorite bands and musicians. I think it'd be cool if a few more people looked at it like that, not because I'm smarter, just because I have a different perspective. Writing stuff off just because it is local is sad to me.

PT: It seems like the quality of locally produced CDs is on the rise. What do you think of the stigma that a local band's CD carries with it?

T: Very little of it [locally produced albums] does [sound like they recorded it in their basement]. Like Don Coffey Jr, for instance, put a lot of work into helping people make better records. Now there are other people doing that. More and more people kind of getting hip to the whole recording thing, and applying that. I hear very few amateur sounding records anymore. There are some younger folks coming along with little studios that are really kind of getting it together. It is exciting because you get a CD from a friend, and instead of saying 'well I got to listen through the noise to hear what's there' you just hear something that's good. That's cool.

PT: Does the Knoxville scene compare to anything you've seen before? We've heard some rumblings comparing it to Austin.

T: No, that's a different animal all together. The Austin thing is humongous. Really wide spread. I really think the Knoxville scene is unique. There are some really, really good bands here that never will go out and play much, or get their records out much past the Disc Exchange. That doesn't make them any less good. There are some bands that, for instance the Tenderhooks, that are working really hard right now. It's really impressive the effort that they're putting into what they're doing. There are others going down that road too. I really think it is unique, and don't know of anything that you could compare it to. Mainly because every other sort of musical scene was a part of a different era. This era, musically, is so different than the previous ones, as were different from the previous ones before them. It really is different, so it requires something different from bands, artists, and whatnot. I think it kinds of stands on its own. It's very diverse.

S: There's not really one kind of genre that you can hang a hat on it, and say 'this is what Knoxville is' like you can with all the other places.

PT: What was the driving factor of the new album?

T: It's really just this particular version of the band. Right at a year ago Rodney Cash started playing with us again. We stripped it down to the three piece thing. We had a couple of shows to play, needed a drummer, so Rodney stepped in. He'd played with us before, so he knew some of the material. We worked up enough older stuff to go play the shows, and then we came back and kind of went 'well, that was cool. Are you [Rodney] interested in working on new material?' Then we spent a couple of months working on new material.

S: We had the studio time booked.

T: Yeah, we had studio time booked for February. We needed to do something, but we also had these songs we wanted to work up. So we spent a couple of months just woodshedding, basically, working on new stuff. We went and recorded, and it went really well. Then came back, and started playing shows. Just playing the new material. It felt a little different. Continued writing more material, working it up. So really the three of us play together a little differently than... Every version of the band has been different, and they've all been good. This one's just different in another way. I think it's got a little more groove and vibe to it. I don't know, I guess the songs kind of drive it, and the way it kind of came together.

S: The songs were different early on. The more we played together, the more different the songs became. It just sort of evolved into something different from anything he's [Tim] done. The reason we put the extended EP out was because we didn't have anything to sell at shows that reflected what the band had evolved into. We hardly play anything off of Concrete Dog [Tim's 2006 album].

T: The more we played the more we brought in new material, then shed the old material. Prior to this I've made seven solo records, now we do two songs [from them]. Sometimes we don't do any. We ended up playing a show while we were in Tucson. We did a ten song set, and without a song that is not on the new record. For us to play more than a couple of old songs, we'd have to do two sets. It's nothing against the older stuff. For me, as long as I've been doing this, I don't ever want to feel like I'm going backwards. When I feel like I'm going backwards maybe I'll quit making records, and start playing my old songs. But I'm writing as many songs as I ever have. Susan writes, and we work together on stuff. With Rodney, the three of us, it's easy to work up material. Like with anybody it's hard to find time, but when we have time it comes together quickly, easily. When we were in the studio last week we... There was one time when something was wrong with the tape machine, a microphone was broken or something, and we just started playing around. I just started playing this riff. They were like 'what's that,' and started playing along. I said 'it's this song I kind of have in mind.' So the next morning I got up, and Susan and I got the lyrics sorted out. We worked it and recorded it that day. It didn't take an hour. We got in the studio with more of the song to cut, we cut it, and then we just started playing around with that. After we'd played through it three or four times we were like 'run the tape.' We got it in two takes.

S: When Tim started talking about how he kind of had this song... cause he had another one he was thinking about. I was like 'well it'd be cool to just go in the next day with a song that none of us knows, but he has the barest idea of what it is.' Just to sort of challenge the three of us. What could we do? We were ahead of schedule, we had plenty of time, it was a great working environment. Really easy, laid back. Just to challenge ourselves. Try to do something we don't know.

T: And it worked out well.

S: Yeah, it worked out great.

T: I love doing that kind of stuff anyway. We went out there very prepared with most of the stuff we did. It was fun to throw a curve ball, and see what happened.

PT: When you go into the studio, do you expunge everything from your last album?

T: No. I've made, between the Windbreakers records and solo records, 20 records of my own. Not to mention a lot of other people's records. You try to learn from everything, and I learned early on its kind of silly to make a record that's a reaction to your last record. Like 'I can't make this like the last one!' You should do what happens naturally. In the case of this band, again, as we go along songs get written with the band in mind moreso than written with what kind of song I want to write right now. I think 'this would be cool with the band.' Susan and I sat down recently and some songs that we went 'well, these songs don't fit.' Those will sit on the shelf, never get used, or whatever. If anything I've learned from experience not worry too much about. Like 'oh I've got to do this,' or 'I got to do that.' Just go into it with the attitude of 'well, we'll see what happens.' I was telling the people at the studio in Tucson, as many records as I've made, I don't care about engineering or anything like that. I believe you go into the studio with people you trust, and you let things happen. I just try not to have too many preconceived notions.

PT: Have you been doing any acoustic shows lately?

T: I used to do a lot of acoustic shows. I'm not that comfortable with them anymore. I got to a point, fifteen years ago, when I was good at doing it. It's not fun to me the way that plugging in an electric guitar, and making racket is. It really think that the whole thing with me is that, in a lot of ways, I want playing in a band to be like it was when I was fifteen. The first time you plug into an amp with a couple of people, and make this sort of glorious racket. There's no feeling like that on Earth. Nothing compares to that at all. The first time you and two other guys hit a big A chord through an amplifier. There's a whole joy to that racket making process that I think is lost in a lot of music. There have been times when I've lost it myself, but, these days, that's my only goal is to sort of get that back. I really don't care about the politics of music. This and that, you know. I do what I got to do to put out records, play gigs, and whatever. Beyond that I just want to have the fun that making music is. That's why I don't do the acoustic thing. I mean, I'll do it on rare occasions, but I don't get any big kick out of it.

PT: Do you all have any tour plans for the new album?

T: We'll have a CD release show in the spring. We usually make a pretty big deal out of that. We go out and play a couple weekends a month. For a while there, this past fall, it was more than that. We'll just keep with what we're doing. Expand a little more from time to time.

PT: Are there any other local performers on the new album?

T: No, we did the whole thing in Tucson [Arizona]. The studio, we've gotten to be really good friends with them. Very cool studio. Calexico and Neko Case have cut some records there. Steve Wynn. Bunch of people like that. Really it is just us, and this guy Nick Luca. He's a Tucson musician who plays with John Doe, has his own band, and does a bunch of stuff. He played some keyboards. Craig Shoemaker, who mixed the record and owns the studio, played a little harmonica. That's what's is different about it, it was all done there. Again, we could have easily done it here in town, but wouldn't have done it as efficiently. There's something about getting out of your comfort zone to go work. To me, it seems a lot more efficient. You don't have to leave in the middle of a session to go home and feed the dogs. That kind of thing. There are fewer distractions when you're off in an alien place.

S: Plus you have 'X' amount of time you have to get it done in. You're a thousand miles away from home, and have this block of time set just for you. That's it. You got to get it done. Otherwise you come back and it's not finished.

T: Then you have to have another plan. I've always found that that's... The few records we've done prior to this, Concrete Dog [2006] and No Discretion [2004], particularly, were dome piecemeal. No Discretion was done at six different studios, and in three different states. Concrete Dog was done at three different studios. It was fun to go back to how I've done it in the past. Taking a week, and making a record. We did it in two one-week chunks this time, for whatever reason. I guess because we could. First time we went out there we did eight songs, the second time we did eight songs. There are a couple that ended up on In The Meantime [2007] that won't be on the album. So the album will probably be thirteen songs, with maybe a hidden track or something. We're extremely happy with the results.

S: Out there we were working on tape, sixteen track. These days, that's a throwback. It is one of those things where the studio is one big room. The three of us can sit in there together, facing each other, playing live. Then you've got all the drums miked up, which takes over half of the tracks.

T: When we did a track, we used ten tracks. It's not like digital recording where you can go in and do forty-eight tracks.

S: You've got sixteen tracks...

T: ... and you got to live with them. I love that kind of work. I don't want to go in, record twenty guitar solos, and pick one out later. I like things that are of-the-moment. So I want to do it, then want to live with that. Either I'm going to do it again, or I'm going to live with it. This second time around, particularly, we did less overdubs. Kept is simpler.

S: But it doesn't sound that way.

T: No. It still sounds really big. In a lot of ways the less stuff you do, the bigger it sounds. That's something a lot of people don't understand, you can really over do things. Some people do that, and it is really good. Like that last Angel and the Love Mongers record. They used forty-eight tracks, and it sounds great. For me, I've made my kitchen sink records, and I really don't want to anymore. I really do like things kind of stripped down and simple. Exciting. For me, if I get carried away, it collapses under its own weight. This band really works as a lean, mean, stripped down sort of thing. So that's what drove this record. We've got this lean, mean band, and let's do it like that. Very little overdubs. There are some keyboards, but it's real minimal. It is not really played up big in the mix. Just part of the texture. Any guitar dubs, other than solos, are just textures. It's a cool way to work. If you do a little bit, you got to make it all count.

PT: Is there any other musician that pushes you, or drives you to make better music?

T: Most of my favorite music... I listen to the music my friends make more than what the flavor-of-the-month is. I really don't care what's popular, and considered hip. I tend to find the music my friends make more interesting. Especially the music of my contemporaries. For instance, Mitch Easter, who I've known and worked with off and on for 25 years. He's doing his best work ever. Steve Wynn, who was in a band in the Eighties that came around about the same time as The Windbreakers, doing his best work ever. Chuck Prophet, who was in Green On Red in the Eighties, doing his best work ever. The dB's are back, and stronger than ever. That's the kind of stuff I tend to find exciting. If there's anything that inspires me it's looking around, seeing people my age, my contemporaries, are doing it also. We play a lot of shows with Mitch Easter, and that's always a blast. But it's great to see this guy I played along with in 1984 playing better than ever. That is inspiring to me. Not many people from that era, that I knew, got super huge and famous. They're probably better for it. Like also, right now, for the last few years, as hokie as it sounds, Susan's being involved has been very inspiring. Especially now that she's singing. Her singing on these new recordings is unbelievably good. Her singing is fantastic. That's really, really exciting to me. I was running errands today, listening to the stuff in the car, cause you know once you get home [from recording] you want to listen to it in your car, where you're used to hearing it. That's exciting. The racket that Susan, Rodney, and I make together when we're playing is inspiring. Every version of this band that I've had in the last seven years has been good, and they've all been fine. They all make me feel things in a different way, approach things in a different way. One version may want to stand around, play long guitar solos. Next version makes me want to hunker down, and crank these songs out fast. This version of the band makes me dance around like an idiot. It is that much fun. They've all been fun, but this one is fun in a different way. That's as inspiring to me as anything. Like I say, I don't really pay attention to trends and what's cool. I've been around long enough to where I've seen them come and go, and I kind of know what they're worth.

PT: So no R. Kelly / Master P collabo on the new record?

T: No, but we are doing a track, for an upcoming compilation, that we hope to have Black Atticus on. We've talked to him about it, but we've got to actually get off our butts and get it done. We played a benefit, and when we ended the set, just kind of hanging on this riff, he and a guy got up and freestyled a bit.

S: It's a song for a WUTK benefit CD that we're trying to put together. The minute that happened I thought 'oh my god, this is so awesome!'

PT: Where is the furthest you all have traveled on tour?

T: We go out and play the southeast and midwest pretty regularly. Over the last few years there have been occasions where Susan and I have gone out to the west coast, play with people out there. Summer before last we went out and played Portland and Seattle. So Seattle's probably the furthest place.

PT: Are there any crazy things you've seen while up on stage?

T: Over the years, I guess so. This day and age it is so weird when you go out and play. I think it works best when we go out, and play a double bill with someone like Mitch Easter. We tend to get that slightly older, record collector crowd.

S: There's always Beetle Bob.

T: I think the weirdest thing we've seen in a while is at this place we've been playing a lot in Macon, Georgia called The Hummingbird. It's kind of become one of our favorite destinations. Has a great, local, built-in crowd. Last time we played down there the owner said 'all the locals are excited that you're here!' So the evening went on, and none of them showed. But, out of the blue, a hundred and twenty college students showed up from Mercer College. While they were not the most attentive crowd on Earth, they had a good time. We had a good time. Vic said 'you know, I don't recognize any of these people.'

S: But they did a huge business at the bar that night, made a ton of money.

PT: Are there any relatively unknown Knoxville musicians that you think should be pushed further towards the forefront?

T: Tons of them. Who's really good that hardly anyone knows about is Kevin Abernathy. He lives in South Knoxville, has a band called The Kevin Abernathy Band. Kevin's just an amazing guitar player, songwriter, and good band leader. They have really good vocal harmonies. They just aren't that known. There's a lot of people like our buddy Po Hannah, who plays guitar for Brendon James Wright and the Wrongs. I don't think many people really have any idea how great he is. Brendon has a really good band, but Po is this standout guitar player that everyone ought to be calling all the time to come play with them. The Leningrads are a fairly new band, and I like them. The Tenderhooks. They do get press, and deserve everything they get. They work really hard at it, and are a world class band. Mark [Coram] is one of those guys that so low key, yet he writes these really cool songs. Making his record [Garageicana] was a blast.

S: It was a hoot.

T: I'd do another one with him [Coram] in a heartbeat.

PT: Speaking of Garageicana, upon perusing your website we noticed that you've been a part of a lot of other local musician's CDs. How did that come about?

T: I got to know Don Coffey Jr., and we got to be good friends around the time he was starting to do the studio thing [Independent Recorders] full time. He just found himself needing to call upon someone from time to time. I just made myself available. I love playing guitar, really do. I don't think I'm the best guitar player, but have more fun playing than just about anybody. I like going in the studio, and making records. I've done it a lot, so I know what works in a recording setting versus playing in a live setting. Which a lot of people don't necessarily get that there's a difference.

S: You're [Tim] a lot better than just about anybody at adapting what you do to the song, rather than just putting yourself all over the song.

T: I don't have to go in and say 'here's my thing.' I want to know what your thing is, and for me the challenge is finding your thing. Making that happen, that's fun to me. I haven't been doing it as much lately, but it is something I really enjoy. It's just friends, like Todd Steed, will call me to play on something, and I'll do it in a heartbeat. John Baker, my friends.

S: All those people trust you [Tim].

T: I'd like to think so.

S: I think they trust that you're not going to come in and do something totally inappropriate.

T: There were a lot of projects where Don had young bands from out of town that just needed some help. A lot of times I just went down there to help people get guitar tones, that I wasn't necessarily credited. Or show them how to set up their guitar to stay in tune. With a lot of young bands that haven't recorded, they don't necessarily know these things that are important. Just because when you turn your amp up to twelve on stage it sounds really, really cool to you, while you're headbanging. That doesn't necessarily mean it's going to sound good when you go in, record, and mix it in with everything. I think I kind of get the tone thing because its a real basic thing, there's nothing fancy about it. All the fancy gear in the world won't get tone any better than the cheapest gear if set up right. That's how that came about, and it is something I really enjoy doing.

PT: What do you think about our local venues?

T: I like the fact that there's a real good variety. We play The Corner Lounge a lot because Ed and his family have been good to us and our friends. Lately we've played at Barley's and Preservation Pub more. They treat us well. On the rare occasion we play The Pilot Light. We love that place. We haven't played Patrick Sullivans in a while. We used to play there a lot, and really liked it. There's just a nice variety of sizes and scope. Some of them you wished had better sound systems. At the end of the day you either get up there do what you do, or you don't. If you're standing around worried about how great your monitor sounds, you're probably not delivering it like you ought to be. Our band is pretty adaptable. We've found that we can set up anytime, anywhere, play, and it usually sounds just fine. We've got settled into what works for us. We like doing a sound check when we can.

S: We didn't do one Friday night, in Tucson. We didn't know any of the equipment. We didn't have any of our own stuff except I had my own bass, Tim had his guitar, and a couple pedals. That was it. But we walked on stage, plugged in, and played.

T: It worked. Sound men usually like us, because our stuff sounds good. We keep things simple. Usually, when we do a sound check, we play half a song, look up at the sound man, and he says 'that's good.' I think there's something to be said about not getting too caught up in details.

S: The minutia.

T: Ideally, before it's all said and done, you' re going to be making a bunch of racket, people are going to be having a good time, and nobody is going to say 'wow, I can't believe he didn't switch guitars for that song.' Or 'this would be so much better if he had two amps instead of one.' Nobody cares about that stuff. They just want to hear something they like, and have a good time. It should be that way on our end as well. Instead of going 'oh, I have to change guitars after every song.'

S: Or whining about the monitors.

T: You just deliver, and let the pieces fall where they're going to fall. Those people [the crowd] don't care if you can hear your monitors. They don't care whatsoever. Even if it means you're singing a little more off key, if you're having fun, it's loud, and there's excitement, they don't care.

PT: What do you think it would take to help Knoxville's scene grow?

T: I like it where's its at, but I would like to see a little more active involvement. There's just been a lot of passive behavior of 'I wish it was like this,' or 'I wish it were like that.' Well, we're the only people that can make it this, that, or the other. At least, from the bands point of view. You can sit around and worry about what it's not, but that is not going to change anything. I would just like to see a little more active behavior, less passive. But I like it where it's at. I mean, you can't complain that no one comes out to your shows, if you don't go to shows. You can sit around and say 'well I don't feel like going out.' Which we all do. If you do that seven nights a week, then more than likely people are going to do that when you play.

Ultimately I know I may sound a little flip about all this, I think people forget what music is all about. They think it's about some political thing, and yeah there is a business to it. The business part can't rule the artistic side. If you're going to play music, you should concentrate on being happy with the artistic side before you even think about the other part. Yeah you got to hustle to get gigs, have to figure out ways to make records, get them out, and pay for them. At the end of the day if there's no joy in it, don't do it. It should be about the joy factor, and for me I want it to be like it was when I was fifteen. I want everytime I plug in my amp to look around and go 'yeah! Cool.' And I do that. The thing is that most of us don't have the money and the contracts, so why worry about that crap? I know when I go see people play, I want to see people having fun. I want them to be serious about their music, but I want them to feel like they truly enjoy it. Again, that is one of the things I get from the Tenderhooks. There's so much joy in that band, it's so exciting to me. Whereas other bands that musically I like just as much, but I go see them and say 'well, they're a little too ponderous about it.'

S: Or they don't look like they're having a good time.

T: This is fun. Not brain surgery, or curing cancer. This is just fun.